[military radio chatter]
[man narrating] When I hear people say, "I lost faith,"
I picture them giving up, no longer able to keep looking.
It wasn't like that for me.
I even thought, selfishly, witnessing a war would bring me closer to God.
But the more I prayed, the more empty my prayers seemed.
They were whispers into a void.
[rumbling]
I was looking for a sign. Any sign.
But it was quiet.
[man] Yeah, I'm still here. I'm listening.
How can I help?
Have you talked to anyone at the VA?
They have people who...
No, I understand.
Thank you for saying that, but I'm not...
Matt, I'm not, uh, qualified.
Is there anyone at work?
I mean, the NSA must be full of other vets. Right?
No, I get it. Appearances matter.
Sure. Anything. Yeah.
[whispers] Hey. Sorry. Give me a minute. I'm sorry. Hold on.
Okay.
Let me ask around. I'll find someone good. I will.
I'll call you as soon as I...
But I'll be in the office right after that.
I'll get you a name. Okay? I promise.
Hey. Hey. Matt.
Hey, hey, come on, man.
Come on. I was there.
I get it.
We're gonna get you some help. Okay? I'll call you tomorrow.
Maybe read Psalms if you get a minute.
There's some stuff in there that always helps me.
Love you too, buddy. Bye.
I'm sorry.
You're the one who wanted to talk.
Sarah, he was crying.
Sorry. You know, I... I like Matt.
Is... Is he okay?
[sighs] I don't know. Uh...
It was bad over there.
It's always bad. It was bad for you too.Yeah.
But I was just there to write, not fight. Big difference.
Look, I really have to get to work.
- I got this, uh, interview. - Interview, yeah. No, I heard.
Hey, I want this... us to work.
Tell me what to do. How many times do you want me to apologize?
Stop apologizing. Just tell me the number. I'll do it.
Things happen. How many times do I have to live through it?
Things happen, but I'm here. Now. I'm back.
It's only been worse since you've been back, Paul. I can't live like this.
I can change. I can be better. I want to be better.
Can't we fix this? Fix?
When trust in a marriage has been broken, how do you fix that?
You want to throw all this away because of one mistake?
It was my fault. I get in my head sometimes.
Can we at least talk to someone? Anyone?
Hey, hey.
Can we... Can we talk tonight? Please? Can we...
I'm not sure I'll be here. I need to think.
You're gonna be late for your interview, and I really have to get to work.
Yeah.
[scraping]
Good morning.
Morning.
Like clockwork, you two.
I'll call you later.
[sobbing]
Good morning.
Sorry I'm late. Uh...
I had to... Sorry I'm late.
Oh, only five minutes.
Still leaves us 25 minutes as agreed.
Uh, right. Thirty minutes today, tomorrow, and Friday.
Mm-hmm. Everyone's, uh...
Busy?
That's right. Everyone's busy.
Are you okay?
Oh. Yeah. Sorry. I'm great.
Sorry. Uh... Paul Asher. With The Herald.
Uh, I know who you are.
I know all your work. I'm a fan.Thanks.
Oh.
Uh, sorry. Do you mind?
Okay. A few ground rules.
I'm recording this conversation for accuracy.
Also three sessions... today, tomorrow, and Friday.
When we're done I'll show you what I wrote, but I retain editorial control.
Do you agree? Agreed.
And I expect great things.
Okay, but don't get your hopes up.
I cover religion for a secular paper,
and the stuff I write usually ends up in the Lifestyles section.
You're just being modest. Horoscopes get better placement.
Well, the reporting you did from Afghanistan was very impressive.
You followed that? Every word.
Christians in combat?
That must have been a tough assignment.
Tough on you. Tough on your family.
Tougher for others.
I was just there to write.
But I met some amazing people.
Well, I'd love to hear more about your personal experiences over there.
Yeah. Maybe some other time.
So, unless we're here to play chess,
let's talk about you.
Do you play? Me? No.
Never? When I was a kid.
Anyway... But not anymore?
My father used to bring me here.
I used to play a little back then. Anyway...
Shall we?
Okay. Today is June 1. Please say your name and spell it.
I'm God. G-O-D.
[chuckles]Okay. Great.
Uh, let's start.
Thanks for agreeing to do this interview.
Well, youagreed.
But you're welcome.Oh.
Can I get a shot of you? Sure.
So, no problem you showing up in a photo?
Well, I'm a deity, not a vampire.
I've gotta say, you look human enough to me.
And you know, you look godlike to me.
I get that. Genesis. In his image.
That's pretty funny. Thank you.
So, uh, why did you agree to do this interview?
I talk to my children all the time.
I see. So I'm one of your children. Of course.
Okay, well, there's a name for people you usually talk to like this.
"Lucky"?
I think I meant "prophets." Oh, sure. Yes.
That's what they're called afterI speak to them, but before that...
Many of them weren't too happy to see me when I showed up. At least not at first.
Right.
A burning bush, a pillar of fire. Pretty dramatic stuff.
I'll bet people freaked out. Oh, they did, they did.
But, uh, I got their attention.
No burning bush today?
[stammers] Would you like that?
Is that what you really want?
[coughs]Okay.
Um... uh, what exactly would you like to see burst into flames?
Something in this park perhaps?
Uh, how about that pillar?
Or maybe the tree, huh?
No, of course not.
Well, it's not necessary.
You're here. I'm here. We're already talking.
Getting back to my question, is that why you're here? Am I a prophet?
Are you a prophet?
Well...
We're... We're talking. Okay?
Th-That's a start.
Okay.
Circle back to that.
Okay, so you're God. The God.
The one who created everything. Heaven and earth in six days.
Uh, yep. But, uh, then I rested.
So, nice work. Thank you.
I try.
But i-is this really what you wanted to know,
just some biographical information about my work?
I'm sure you could read all about it in a book somewhere.
Well, sure, but you know, my readers expect some fact-checking in my work.
Facts. Yes.Mm-hmm.
Yes, always the facts.
Okay. Fine.
Well, please continue.
Uh... how old are you?
Time is different for me than it is for you.
I mean, I exist outside of time.
After all, I created time.
Right.
Where do you come from?
Paul, I think this interview would be more productive
if we don't waste time on questions to which you already know the answers.
Okay. Moving on.
Paul, I'm not being difficult.
I just... I just think you of all people
should know why my answers might be confusing.
I mean, if the, uh... if the nature of God were obvious...
Well, look at the world around you
and you will see that it is not.
So we struggle here on earth to know you, but I assume you know all the questions and answers.
Mm-hmm. Of course.
Does that make you feel uncomfortable?
But then you know the answer to that question too, right? Yes.
But a divine perspective is not required.
Try to see this from my point of view. This is not an easy process.
No, I get it.
Knowing all the questions and all the answers
must make human conversation kind of difficult.
Well, no one likes a know-it-all.
Right.Mm-hmm.
All right, you said, "you of all people" a few moments ago.
You said, "You of all people should know why my answers might be a little confusing."
What do you mean by that? Why me of all people?
Well, you have a degree in religious studies
and a degree in journalism from Loyola University,
where you graduated the top of your class.
You started working at The Herald in their online division
right out of college,
where you write about matters of faith and theology.
So you memorized my online bio.Mm-hmm.
And I also know about your marriage.
Excuse me?
I know about your marriage.
Oh.
You had me going for a second.
Yes, I did, didn't I?
You're waiting for me to ask. Ask what?
For proof.Ah.
Proof that you are who you say you are.
Yeah, proof.
Well, tell me, Paul,
when you pray, do you ask for proof that God is listening?
No. Of course not.
Then this is your lucky day. How so?
I'm here, answering your questions.
I hope I'm being cooperative.
You are.
So, what do I tell the people who say you don't exist?
You tell them that I understand,
but the world they see is just that.
Sometimes that's just the way it looks.
That's a good answer.
Good. I'm glad. [clears throat]
You're a very good interviewer, Paul.Thanks.
Yeah, you've established trust, established rapport.
Yeah, you're not at all condescending,
and you want the truth above all else.
Yeah. The truth would be cool.
Well, that's my specialty.
Okay. Uh, the lightning round and in no order.
[chuckles] Lightning round. That's cute.
What is the meaning of life?
To live, to struggle, to serve God,
and to ask questions like, "What is the meaning of life?"
Are the Torah and the New Testament the word of God?
Of course. But as understood by man and as translated by man.
There's some wiggle room there.
No.
Well, everyone has their own journey, but there is only one path.
Was there ever a time when God didn't exist?
- Well, I could give you the answer I gave Moses. - Okay.
I am that I am.
[chuckles] Right.
I should have known that.Yes.
And it's as true today as it was back then.
Is there a heaven? Oh, yes.
But try not to think of it as just a place.
So Satan is also real?
Yes, but frankly, Satan is overrated.
Overrated? That's a funny way to put it. How so?
Well, he only has power to the extent that you give it to him.
What happens to us after we die?
You are reunited with the everlasting.
So my soul is immortal?
Well, it wouldn't be much of a soul if it wasn't.
Can an atheist be a moral person? Sure. Sure.
And you can build a home on no foundation.
But you just better hope that the earth never shakes.
[chuckles]
Is God love?
He doesn't boast, but yes, absolutely.
What's 2,427 times 648?
1,572,696.
[laughs]
For real?
I'm sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
No, that's all right. God forgives.
But this is interesting. What's that?
There's a lot of good questions here,
but you haven't asked me the one question I get asked almost more than any other.
No? What's that? Well, take a guess.
Why do bad things happen to good people?
That's the one. No, that's not on my list.
And frankly, I don't like that question very much. No?
Why not?
Because it's not really a question, is it? It's a complaint.
What it really means is, why do bad things happen to me?
And the person asking is assuming they're a good person,
which seems arrogant to me.
But, Paul,
bad things do happen to some very good people.
It is a big question.
Yes. I know.
I'll answer it if you'd like.
No. Let's move on.
Okay.
Does free will exist? And how do we reconcile it with God's will?
[sighs] Finally.
Finally? What does that mean?
It's an adverb meaning "at last."
[laughs] Cute. You know what I meant.
No, finally you are asking me some questions you care about.
I care about all the questions. Well, maybe.
But you care about some of the answers more than others.
Look, this is not about me.
Really?
Does free will exist?
Did I force you to come to this meeting?
Would I know it if you did?
That reminds me of an old joke.
A student goes to his rabbi and says,
"Rabbi, why do you and the other rabbis
always answer my questions with another question?"
And the rabbi replies, "So how should we answer?"
Okay. You didn't laugh at God's joke.
So what does that say about free will?
Of course there's free will, Paul,
and everybody knows this is true.
The entire foundation of human law depends on the existence of free will.
Try going before a judge
when you've been charged with a crime.
Blame your actions on God's will.
See how that works out for you.Hmm.
Now, does this mean that every human act is a matter of free will?
Of course not.
No more than you can use free will to grow back an amputated leg.
So, stuff happens and God says, "Hey, man, don't look at me."
No. No.
You have to understand that my will and human free will
are not contradictory
because they are not two versions of the same thing,
but they do fit perfectly together.
I designed it that way.
Yeah, but if I can't tell where one begins and the other ends...
Do you see my problem?
Hmm. Yeah, I think I see.
Do you? Yeah.
Is the problem that you don't trust God's plan,
or that you don't trust yourself?
Oh, great. So, if God's got a plan, I'm covered. Right?
I should've just stayed in bed, because for all I know it's part of his plan.
That's not what I'm saying and you know it.
All right. Look here. Chess. Right?
Pieces interact. There's rules.Mm-hmm.
There's give and take.
But no two pieces can occupy the same space at the same time.
That's a lot like you and me.
People make choices,
and those choices have consequences.
And if knowing my will were part of every human decision,
how would anything ever happen, hmm?
You'd be paralyzed every morning,
trying to decide whether to brush your teeth vertically or horizontally.
So, trying to know God's will is, what, a waste of time? No. Not at all.
Paul, I'm only telling you what you already know.
You have to make your own choices,
and you have to live by those choices,
no matter how you arrived at them.
Hmm.
Tell me, when you traveled to Afghanistan,
which aspects of my will did you consider?
Or did you just think it's all my will, so, hey, anything goes?
Um, I think it was slightly more complicated than that.
You traveled 7,000 miles into a war zone, Paul.
War changes people.
You had to have known a trip like that would have consequences for you,
and for your family.
Or did you think that you'd be different?
I guess I was hoping God would look out for me.
"Hoping"?
Praying.
I prayed for my own safety.
I prayed God would watch over the soldiers I'd met and bring them home.
I prayed my wife would be okay while I was gone.
I prayed I didn't do anything stupid. I prayed a lot.
Were your prayers answered?
I don't know. Some, yes. Mostly, no.
Would you like to talk about that?[laughs]
Are you the complaint department?
I heard I was needed, so I came.
So, I think I'm here to do an interview,
but really what this is is an intervention.
Yes, but not in the way you think it is.
How do you know what I think?
Let's save that for tomorrow.
This is a weird interview.Yeah.
Okay, let's just call it a conversation. Would that be better?
Sorry. That's not why they pay me.
Oh. And that's why you're here. For money.
Why are we here?
I heard I was needed, so I came.
A simple "thank you" would suffice.
[chuckles] Why do I deserve your special attention?
Don't you?
So you're here to save me.
Do you need saving?
Doesn't everyone?
Yes.
But we're gonna do something a little different this time.
Oh? I'm gonna help you.
You're gonna help me? Mm-hmm.
I don't understand. I know.
I know.
But, uh, you will.
And so...
We're out of time.
[chuckles] All right.
Uh, see you tomorrow?
Sure. Same time and place?
Well, to be determined.
Seriously. What's all this about?
Uh, let's talk tomorrow.
[voice whispering softly]
[voice continues whispering]
[child laughing]
[voice continues whispering]
[woman's voice murmuring][voice continues whispering softly]
[voice continues whispering softly]
[siren wailing in distance]
[horns honking]
[sighs]
[chattering, faint]
[phone rings]
Yeah. Um... [clears throat] Paul Asher.
[woman] Hey, it's me.
Oh, uh, hi.
So, what happened this morning?
Did she leave?
I don't know. Um... I don't know.
Oh.
You sound a little, um... I'm sorry. I had...
I just got into work. I had a weird, strange morning.
Can I see you later?
Paul? You there?
[tapping]
Oh. Oh.
Hey, uh, can I call you later?
Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Promise? Yeah. Will do. Okay.
Paul... Okay. Thanks. Talk to you soon.
Okay. Bye. Bye.
Hey. Gary.
Yeah, hey.
What are you doing here?
Yeah, I know. I'm sorry, uh...
And yet, here you are.
You know, paid leave
means we still pay you, right?
Yes. HR explained that.
And how much time have you taken off since you got back?
Mmm...
I think the answer you're looking for is "none."
Paul.
Hmm.
So, you know
there is no shame in taking some time.
Right?
Yeah. Thanks.
Uh, but I needed to... Did you get my text?
You trying to change the subject?[chuckles] Yeah.
[laughs]It work?
Yeah, I got it. Everything okay? Yeah, all good.
Just a crazy morning. I'm working on something.
That's not what I meant.
Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm good. [chuckles] Thanks.
Mm-hmm.
What about Sarah? Family? What's she up to?
[clears throat] She's good.
Yeah? Yeah. I'll tell her you asked.
Hey, Gary, excuse me. Tell her I say hi.
[woman] Can you just sign right here?
[Gary] Yeah.
And here.Mm-hmm.
[Gary] Send it out. Thank you.
Yeah.
So, what do you need?
What do you mean?
Yeah... Oh. [chuckles]
Your text this morning.
Yeah.
Um...
I have this friend and he needs some help.
Mmm. A friend. Really?
Wow. No, it's not me. It's a guy I met overseas.
He's having trouble since he got back.
- PTSD? - I think so.
Okay. Yeah.
- Is he gonna be okay? - I hope so.
I think sometimes it's just hard to see God's plan
in the middle of a war, you know.
Yeah. So, what can I do to help?
He needs to talk to someone right away, someone professional.
I told him I'd ask around.
He's a good guy. A war hero.
Do you know anyone?
He can't go to the VA?
Well... I mean, that's what it's there for.
He's got a classified job now, so it could be a problem if people think he's...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well...
I know somebody over at the Interfaith Center who's pretty good.
She's really good. I went to her myself when Ann left me.
- When was this? - Last year.
I didn't know. I'm so sorry.
Ah, well, I didn't advertise, and you were...
gone for most of it, so...
You never said anything.
You were fine. You... You seemed fine.
Yeah, see, that's the thing.
Sometimes there aren't signs when someone's in trouble.
So it's really good that your friend, this, um...
Matt.Matt...
is reaching out to you like this.
Yeah.
- So I'll ask and get you a name. - Okay. Thanks.
You know I got your back. Right? You know that? Yeah. I do.
Okay.
What are you working on?
Oh. Uh, you're not gonna believe this.
Um... I'm doing an interview.
Okay. With who?
With God.
Really?
Yeah. Yeah. Really.
I love it. That's a great idea.
You like it? Because I was starting to have second thoughts.
No, no, no, no, no. For your blog?
Or maybe this could be something bigger.[stammering]
I don't know. What do you mean, something bigger?
Print edition, column four. Human interest, every Thursday.
Yes. Yes.
The front page. Y-Y... You're kidding.
About time God made the front page.
You disagree?
No, of course not.Okay.
But what will the office think?
You don't think it'll cause some resentment around here?
No, not really.
I think they already resent you.Okay.
Thank you. How many words?
No idea.
Okay, okay, uh... This is gonna be good. This is great.
Okay, for now,
we'll keep this between us, yeah?
Yeah. No problem. Let me work on it.
Okay.[snaps fingers]
Interview with God.
[chuckles]
That's very cool. Very cool.
[phone ringtone chiming]
[line rings] Hi. This is Sarah.
Leave a message at the beepy thing, and have a great day.
[beeps]Hey, Sarah, it's me.
Um... I wanna finish our talk.
I think we can fix this.
Please call me back.
Okay. Bye.
[beeps] [Paul] Is God love?
[God] He doesn't boast, but yes, absolutely.
[Paul] What's 2,427 times 648?
[God] 1,572,696.
[mutters] Six hundred...
[Paul chuckles on recording]
For real?
[voices rewinding]
[God] 1,572,696.
[chuckles]
Huh.
Sarah?
[spits]
[milk sloshes into sink]
[God on recording] I know who you are.
I know all your work. I'm a fan.
Christians in combat? That must have been a tough assignment.
Tough on you. Tough on your family.
You traveled 7,000 miles into a war zone, Paul.
War changes people. You're gonna help me?
[God] I don't understand.
[Paul] Getting back to my question, is that why you're here?
Am I a prophet?[God] But, Paul...
bad things do happen to some very good people.
I just think you of all people should know why my answers might be...
Is the problem that you don't trust God's plan?
Or is the problem that you don't trust yourself?
I'm God. G-O-D.
That reminds me of an old joke.
[Paul] Seriously. What's all this about?
What exactly would you like to see burst into flames? Am I a prophet?
This is not about me. Really? People make choices.
Why are we here? Those choices have consequences.
[Paul] So, you're here to save me?
[God] If knowing my will were part of every human decision,
how would anything get done?
[reverberating] When you traveled to Afghanistan... Which aspects...
You of all people should know... And I also know about your marriage.
So, if God's got a plan, I'm covered, right? I also know about your marriage.
Can we talk later tonight, please?[Sarah] I'm not sure.
When trust in a marriage has been broken, how do you fix it?
How many times do you want me to apologize? Stop apologizing.
I don't care about the dishes!
[grunts]
[woman] You never know.
[voice whispering, faint]
Sarah?[voice continues whispering, faint]
Hello?
[voice continues whispering, faint]
Who's there?
[multiple voices whispering, faint]
Hello?
Hello!
Who's there?
[man, muffled] Shut up![thumping on floor]
Morning.
Sarah staying home today? Yeah.
Under the weather?
Uh, yeah, I think so.
Echinacea.
That's what I use.
I'll tell her.
Hello?
You work here?
Why do you ask?
My mom worked here.
Long ago.
Should we even be in here?
Come. Join me.
Oh, you don't look so good today, Paul.
Is everything okay? I'm fine.
What happened to your hand?
We should get started.
Uh, we can skip today and finish tomorrow, if that would be better.
No, that's okay. I'm here. You're here.
Let's just, uh, pick it up where we left off and...
make it a good interview.
Actually, you didn't look so good yesterday either.
I'm, uh... I'm a little worried.
About yesterday, we got off track.
I was trying to be professional, but we got off track. I apologize for that.
No apologies necessary.
You were incredibly professional, and I said so.
Thank you, but somehow I became part of the interview,
and that's not supposed to happen.
So let's get back to you and, uh...
make it a good interview.
Shall we?
[beeps]Okay, recording.
June 2. Paul Asher interviewing God.
So, I think we covered most of the basics yesterday.
Uh, where did we leave off? You were asking me why I was here.
Right. Sorry. Uh, so why are you here? Why an interview?
I'd like to talk to you about salvation, Paul.
Okay. Good topic. This is progress.
Salvation.
What do you mean by that? What do you think I mean by that?
I'm not trying to be difficult,
but we should establish what you think it is before we can discuss it.
Right? Salvation means different things to different people.
Yes, it does. It's very personal.
It is the most personal, and in the end...
and I mean, literally in the end,
there's nothing more personal than salvation.
It's just you and your soul.
Can't get more intimate than that. Hard to argue.
So when I ask you, what do you think it is,
it's only to help me answer your questions properly.
That's why we're here. Right? You ask. I answer.
Okay.
Salvation means different things to different people.Mm-hmm.
But I'm a Christian, so let me answer it from that perspective.
Salvation is returning to a state of perfection with the Almighty
and absolution from sin forever.
Excellent. That's a very good definition.
Yes, you got right to the heart of the matter. Thank you.
But you sidestepped several thousand years of disagreement
over how you actually get there.
I'm with Jesus, so I'm covered, thanks.Oh.
Are you sure about that? What does that mean?
Nothing. I'm... I'm just asking.
As I said, I'd like this interview to be about you.
I answered your question, so... salvation.
Salvation. Okay.
So, for the sake of... for the sake of discussion,
let's pretend that I am a manufacturer and you are a consumer,
and you tell me, how would you rate the product.
[inhales, exhales]
Salvation as the product?
You've gotta be kidding me. No, I'm not kidding.
Just pretend that it's market research.
You've done this many times before, I'm sure.
It's just another online survey.
How do you rate the product?
Okay. Let's find out.
On the one hand, it's the greatest product ever.
Redemption from sin?
Reunification with God for eternity after a lifetime on earth? Wow!
Who wouldn't want that product? If that doesn't sell itself, nothing ever will.
Well, I'm glad you approve.
On the other hand... On the other hand, what?
On the other hand, it's the only product I can think of
where proper use involves returning it to the maker.
And there's really only one way that can happen.
Everybody wants to get to heaven...
But no one wants to die. Exactly.
That slight complication is mitigated by the fact that everyone will die.
So it's really just about the when... the product... not the what.
Oh, I knew you'd be good at this.
Yeah. I should've been a marketing major.
So, moving on... But, uh, what else?
Really?
There's one aspect that you left out,
the one that I mentioned in the first place... the how.
Or we can call it instructions, just to stay with our metaphor.
Okay, but really, after this, we have to move on.
Okay.
Okay, well, uh, the instructions.
The instructions are widely available, so that's good.
Um, the Bible's a best seller year after year, but...
But...
I think the instructions are a little confusing.
Well, no one ever said knowing my will would be easy. Right.
But knowing God's will isn't really the problem, is it?
The scriptures are full of rules. Yes, they are.
I can think of ten just off the top of my head.
Right, but that's the Old Testament, the Torah.
The New Testament is different.
God gave us his son. That was a game-changer. Indeed it was.
Jesus was super-clear. John 14:6.
"I am the way. No one comes to the Father but through me."
Seems very clear to me.
But that can't be right. No?
Because everyone's a sinner.Yes.
If we're saved through faith and faith alone, why would anyone follow all the other rules?
But is faith all it takes?
You're a murderer. So what? Liar? No problem.
Philanderer? Hey, everyone makes mistakes.
So what's the problem? The problem is...
[chuckles]
The problem is...
The problem is what, Paul? Sorry.
This keeps happening. I'm not the story. We agreed.
Check the record. I never agreed to that.
What do you want? I mean, really. What is this all about?
It seems like you want something from me. I have no idea what it is.
Now you see why the burning bush worked so well. I talk, people listen.
I agreed to meet with you
because it was an intriguing prospect, an idea for an interview,
and I think I have given you the benefit of the doubt.
But it's clear to me now you had some other hidden agenda for this.
This, whatever this is. Really, give me something. What do you want from me?
My math skills didn't impress you?
No, that was impressive, but there are people who can do that stuff.
Okay. Savants, I guess.
Right. Okay. I'll give you something.
But you may not like it. Ah, finally.
Okay, hit me. All right.
No offense, but I think you have a misunderstanding about the nature of faith.
I don't think that's true. I told you I've always had faith.
There it is.
You see?
"I've always had faith." [sighs]
Paul, do you see what I mean?
No, not really. What are you saying?
Okay, we'll get back to that.
Paul, do you... do you ever think
of what the world is like from my perspective?
From God's perspective? Mm-hmm.
Frankly, no.
How would I even do that? How would that be possible?
Well, fair enough.
But, uh, try to imagine knowing every human deed,
every thought, aspiration, uh, depravity.
But also knowing all the, uh, isolation
and the... the pain and the emptiness of life.
Now, multiply that times every human soul that ever existed.
I wouldn't want that job. Why not?
Because it would be overwhelming.
The world is full of such terrible things.
I work for a newspaper. I see it every day.
Horrible things.
Things that come crashing down on decent people.
People with dignity who only want to know why it's happening to them.
What would I say to them?
"Trust me"?
"I have a plan"? [scoffs]
No, thanks.
All that misery in the world would break my heart.
Mm-hmm.
But tell me,
why would you care?
All right, what do you mean, why?
Why would it break your heart?
Because I care.
I have compassion for my fellow human beings.
And where does that morality come from?
I'm sure the answer you're looking for is "from God,"
but, really, I have no idea.
Free will perhaps, Paul? Hmm?
Free will exists.
And it wouldn't be much of a morality if I forced you to have it, Paul.
Okay. Good to know. It's all me.
So, when do we get to the part I won't like?
Paul, if you think faith is enough...
I mean, it's not, but if you do,
would you just start being an immoral person?
How do you know I'm not an immoral person? Because you just told me.
You said you have compassion, and I believe you.
So, what could you possibly do
that would be beyond my powers to forgive you?
[inhales deeply]
Paul, I just asked you a very important question.
I, uh... I don't want to talk about this.
Can we change the subject, please?
Why?
Because it's personal.
But you have no secrets from me. Yeah, I do.
No, you don't.Yeah, I do.
And my life is not the topic of this conversation.
But it really is, Paul. I don't know how many more ways I can say this.
But you need to start hearing me.Okay.
We've done enough for today. Thank you. All right, all right.
You can ask me anything you want.
That's what I've been doing, but it doesn't really get me anywhere.
I've been more than deferential to your claim of who you are,
but I keep asking questions, and you keep giving me these evasive answers.
You've been asking very good questions,
and I'm trying to answer them as best I can.
Best for who? For you, of course.
If that's what you think, then we did get to the part I don't like.
Well, it can get a lot worse than that. I really don't see how.
Well, how about we talk about your marriage? No!
No, we really can't, and it's inappropriate you would bring that into the conversation!
My personal life is off-limits,
and that goes double for my marriage.
Oh, and you're sure about that?
Are you...
Did someone put you up to this? Is that...?
Paul, you're just being paranoid.
- I'm just here to help. - Thanks, but I can manage my own affairs.
Oh, you can? I can manage!
Why are you doing this? Is this what you do to people?
Is this what you do? Go around talking crap?
[chuckles]Why am I here?
Oh, I get that question too many times. I mean, here.
In this theater. Why am I here?
'Cause I would like to help you if you will let me.
Thanks. I've got it covered. Everything's under control.
Oh, okay then. Yeah. Well, that's... that's very good to hear
because, uh, you are about out of time.
Oh, I had five more minutes, but I'm happy to forfeit that time to the next prophet.
No, Paul. I mean, you are about out of time.
- What are you saying? - Just that.
Out of time. That's cryptic. What does that even mean?
- You're saying... - Yes.
[sighs]
[scoffs]
- Are you saying...? - Yes.
I'm very sorry.
- This is a joke. - No. No joke, Paul.
I'm sorry.
Sick joke. [sniffles]
Why would you tell me that?
Because you said so yourself, Paul.
Dying is just about the when.
So why can't the when be now?
This interview is over. Well, we... we still have tomorrow.
There is no tomorrow!
I'll let you know where, just in case you change your mind.
I'm pretty sure I won't. I don't even know why I agreed to this.
You prayed, Paul. You asked for help.
That's why I'm here, and I thought an interview would be a place
where a journalist would be comfortable.
Well, congratulations. You got that exactly wrong.
I'm not comfortable at all with this.
Salvation is real, Paul,
and it can still happen for you,
but you need to understand something very important.
Faith isn't something that you can just have.
Not in the conventional sense.
Because faith isn't the goal.
Faith is the process.
It's a lot like a marriage.
The vows you take aren't the end. They're just the beginning.
It takes time and dedication... every day.
[chuckling] Wow.
Paul?
Paul!
Would you like to know when it will happen?
No.
[horn honks][gasps]
Wh-What... What are you doing here?
You never called me back.
[sighs] Uh, yeah.
I'm... I'm sorry. I had a bad day yesterday, and...
I know. That's why I called you.
Hey. Hello. It's nice to see you.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Hi.
Uh, can we... can we take this...
[clears throat]Okay.
Nobody knew where you were, and you didn't answer your cell.
I was in a meeting. I had it turned off. I'm sorry. Uh...
[clears throat]
Do you want to talk about yesterday?
[sighs] No, not really.
Don't you think we should?
Okay, what's on your mind?
Why are you talking to me like that?
Like I'm other people. She just left me yesterday.
Can I get a... some breathing room? Please?
I know. I'm... I'm just worried about you.
I know. I'm sorry. I know you are.
It's just...
Do you want me to leave?
Paul, you know this wasn't your fault, right?
It wasn't anyone's fault.
Of course, it's my fault.
Why does it have to be someone's fault?
Things happen in the universe, Paul, in life.
Well, you know, I have a slightly different perspective on that.
I know, and it's one of the things I've always loved about you.
You have a strength and a certainty that I've never had.
But this...
This was my fault.
How?
I never should have gone away.
Where? To Afghanistan?
It was stupid. I never thought it through, what might happen.
I was stupid.
- Is that what you think? - Yes, it's what I think.
No, Paul.
What?
[shouts] What?
Sarah had the affair before you left.
[sighs, snickers]
[chuckles]
Oh, God. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I thought you knew. Give me a minute, please.
Give me a minute. Just give me some space! Please.
Sorry. Oh!
What's happening here? Call you back.
Whatever it is, why is it happening in my office?
I-I'm sorry. Hi. I'm-I'm Grace.
I'm Paul's sister-in-law. Uh, Sarah's sister.
Hi.A fan of your sister.
Thanks. Uh, I'm sorry.
We totally stole your office.
Yes, you did.
Would you mind giving us a couple of minutes?
I'm sorry. Paul?
Is that all right, Gary?
All right. Hey, I got that name for your friend, okay?
Number's right here. They'll see him today if he can make it.
- I'll leave it here. - Thank you.
[chuckles] He doesn't know, huh?
No.
It might help if you start talking to someone.
If not me, someone else.
I want to talk to Sarah about it, but she's not returning my calls.
I don't even know where she is. For all I know, she could be with that other guy.
No, she's... she's not. She's not.
That's over. How do you know?
'Cause she's staying with me.
What? Why didn't you tell me?
Paul, please.
Could you please get her to call me back?
I can't. I'm sorry.
- You've got to be patient. - Why?
You just have to give her time. Give her time?
How much time? A day? A week? A month?
Paul, come on. I've known you since I was 18.
Sarah marrying you was the best thing she ever did.
And we will always be family.
That's why I'm here today.
I-I don't know why this happened, but...
You should really talk to someone.
[sighs] Yeah, I will.
- Promise? - I promise. Yeah.
[clears throat] Yeah. I appreciate you coming by. Thank you.
- Hug? - Yeah.
Hey, Matt. It's me.
Yeah, that's why I'm calling actually.
You know what? I'm going to text it to you.
They said if you can make it, they'll see you right away. Today.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Okay. Good luck. Let me know how it goes. Give me a call after.
Okay?
Um, can I ask for a favor? A big favor?
I'm doing this interview, and it's getting kind of weird.
Um...
Well, that's the thing. I-I don't know.
If I send you a head shot, could you check it out,
run it through the database or something?
Is that possible?
Really?
No, that's perfect. Tomorrow's fine.
Okay. Bye.
What's going on?
Look, I'm sorry, Gary. What's wrong?
Is there a problem with the story?
Talk to me.
Sarah just left me.
Yesterday.
[sighs] I'm sorry. Why didn't you say something?
It's been bad since I got back.
I should have said something.
I don't know why.
This about Afghanistan?
I thought so, but now I think it might be a bigger problem, an older problem.
I'm trying to figure it out. All right.
Well, maybe it's time you take that break we talked about, huh?
[sobs, sniffles] Yeah.
Yeah. I might. Okay, good.
You think you can fix things with her?
I don't know. Maybe I think she's better off without me.
Don't say that.
Never think that.
You know, when Ann left me, I, uh... I went a little crazy.
I had thoughts I'd never had before.
Crazy, weird thoughts.
And then, you know, maybe some of it was from,
like, the body blow, the hurt feelings.
But the worst part of it for me was... was this crushing disappointment.
Gary, I don't need you to-to-to...
No, listen to me. Listen to this.
I always had all kind of bad thoughts
about what my life was gonna be like,
like... like what could happen.
I mean, poverty, horrible illness. You name it.
But I never once imagined that my marriage might fail.
What is that, naive?
Is it?
I mean, really, why couldn't it happen to me?
Because I have faith?
Does that make me special?
Well, doesn't it? Yes.
That's exactly it. It does.
And it was faith that rescued Ann and me.
Sure, we needed help, and it took time,
but he was there for us when we needed him.
So, you've just got to get right.
Yeah, I know. I'm trying.
You still love Sarah?
You know I do.Okay. Okay.
Then find your hope and fix this.
You can do it.
What if time were a factor?
What? What is it? What are you talking about?
I'm sorry. Forget I said that.
It's just... Gary, this interview.
It's... I don't know.
It's... eating me up.
Is that where you've been the past couple days? Yeah. It is.
It's really an interview?
Yeah. It is. Yeah.
With God?
[chuckles]
Okay.
You already pitched it to the print edition, didn't you?
Yes.
- And they loved it. - Come on, Gary. Look at me.
My wife just left me. I'm crying my eyes out in your office.
It's possible I might need to deal with some stuff right now.
Listen, you sort it out.
You take care of you first.
And remember what I said. Get right.
Thanks, Gary.Yeah.
[buzzing]
Come on, pick up, pick up.
I just nearly picked up. I wanted to speak to him.
Then why didn't you?
Because I destroyed my marriage.
Sarah.
Sarah, I'm struggling here, okay? I have to talk to you.
Could you call me back right away?
It's important.
Please call me back.
Okay. Bye.
Wait. What the...?
How many men take back a wife that cheated?
He was either working or at the theological library.
He stopped going to church and his men's group because he lost faith.
I made it about me.
He was gone.
- You don't know what I did. - I know you're human.
You know me, right?
You know I don't believe in all that pray-to-Jesus crap,
but... maybe you should.
You're telling me to pray?
Can't hurt.
It can't reverse what I did.
There's no going back from what I've done, ever.
All right.
[water running]
[sniffs]
[sighs]
Why is he showing himself rather than being hidden from me?
What am I to myself? No one loved me.
Who am I? [sniffs]
Okay.
[snoring][helicopter whirring]
[men chattering]
[woman, quietly] Can you hear me?
[Paul on recording] Why? Because it's personal.
[God on recording] But you have no secrets from me.
[Paul] Yeah, I do. No, you don't.
Yeah, I do. My life is not the topic of this conversation.
[God] But it really is, Paul.
I don't know how many more ways I can say this, but you need to start hearing me.
[Paul] Okay.[sighs]
We've done enough for today. Thank you. All right.
[footsteps]
- Welcome back. - Thank you.
I have some more questions.
Today is our last interview,
and I want to come to some conclusions.
Good. So do I.
I got it. All right.
Thank you.
[clears throat]
Okay, recording. Friday, June 3.
Last interview.
[speaks Italian]
Your Italian is very good. Loyola Rome, junior year abroad.
Well, that's time well spent.
You gave me some pretty disturbing news yesterday.
Was it news?
You keep saying that you're here because I prayed, that you're here to help.
That's right. And yet you told me I'm gonna die.
How does that help me? You're a journalist.
Surely you appreciate the value of a deadline.
Hmm.
Sorry. I knew it would get you back here. So it was just manipulation?
No, motivation is the word I'd use, and here you are.
You were pushing me? Yes, of course.
Like you've been pushing me from the start?
- Well, maybe you needed a push. - Is that your job?
Paul, I told you, I play an active role in the lives of all my children.
So let's stop wasting time on things you already know, and let's move on.
Shall we?
And you can cross that first question off your list.
Is God just a clockmaker?
Now you know.
So, this is how it works when God answers your prayers?
I never said I was here to answer your prayers.Right.
You said you came because I prayed, so maybe you can see my confusion.
But apparently it was just to deliver some bad news, right?
- 'Cause, you know, I feel fine. - Oh?
Oh, are you here to bargain with me?
No.Well, good.
Good. Then let's move on.
Sure.
Let's talk about salvation. That's not on your list for today, is it?
No.Anyway, we discussed it yesterday.
I have more questions. Oh, I think we covered it pretty well.
It's a big topic. Oh, I know.
A big topic for my readers. Mine too.
Okay. So, what's the problem?
Apparently, we didn't delve deeply enough.
Well, you know, now it feels just a little more personal to me.
I thought it might.
Really? That's all you got for me?
What more do you want? Oh, I don't know. Some answers.
What was the question again?
Oh, that's just perfect. See, this is what drives good people nuts.
We try to be good people, try to please you,
and we need some answers, and where did you go?
Do you have any idea how that feels... like you're being judged every single day?
All we want is some peace of mind,
but it's like you're... I don't know... some cosmic killjoy.
Good, good. Well, now we're getting somewhere.
Doesn't really seem like it.
Paul, you think salvation is a burden?
Yes. But it's not. It's a gift.
You and I remember my Sunday school education a little differently.
All right. Let me try to clear it up for you. Please do.
You're one of my children. So you said.
Now, when you're a child, your parents have rules, right?
Of course.
Now, as you grow up, what happens?
You mean, with my parents? Yes. What changes for you, with your parents?
Uh, I don't know. Less rules, more responsibilities. Is that what you mean?
Yes, and more freedoms too, right? Sure.
So... I mean, do you see?
No! What do you... I'm sorry. Are we...
We're still talking about salvation or...?
All right. Let me put it in a biblical context.
In the early days, men were wicked.
Yes, and that didn't work out too well for them.
No, salvation wasn't possible then like it is now.
But I gave you another chance. A new set of rules.
Moses. That's right.
Now, the law was clear,
but still the path to me was indirect and difficult.
But all that changed one day long ago in Bethlehem.
And it was good news. But it was also the start of a new covenant.
A new way.Yes.
For example, Moses had ten commandments,
but later Jesus only mentioned six on two occasions.
I know the controversy.Yes.
Now, when asked how a man can enter heaven, Jesus said, "You shall not murder.
You shall not steal. You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not bear false witness.
Honor thy father and mother. Love your neighbor as yourself."
In Matthew and Mark. Yes, I know.
He left four off the list. The first four. Yes, I know.
Yes, the four that deal with man's relationship to God.
Now, what does that tell you?
I'll assume it's not a typo. Now come on. Think about it.
What's more likely... Jesus just forgot four of the Ten Commandments,
or Jesus knew the world was changing, that he was changing it,
and he didn't feel he needed to remind his followers
that the Sabbath Day is holy, or that there is only one true God?
And was he right? About what?
God. Well, look around.
Know many polytheists these days?
[speaking Italian]
And you can cross that question off your list as well.
Are you the one true God?
Are we clear?
This is all very interesting, but I still don't see the me in it.
Okay. How's this for a headline?
Your life is not an audition for the afterlife,
and if you can stop worrying about that,
you just might have time for other things.
Things like loving one another and living your life.
However long that is. Yeah.
Paul, I've given you a great gift.
A new justification, a new responsibility.
But it's up to you to receive my gift before it's too late.
See, right there.
You say you're here to help me, but that kind of sounds like a threat.
Why can't I do two things at the same time, hmm?
For thousands of years, Paul,
I have been trying to help you find your way to me.
Now, did I always succeed? Well, ask Noah.
Was I too vengeful back then? Maybe.
But there's never a real threat without a real consequence.
So, you are here to threaten me.
Is that what you really think?
Either way, I'm hoping for a better outcome than in Noah's day.
Oh, me too. Back then, it took a flood.
Now it's just you and me in this room with that digital recorder.
Not what comes to mind when you think divine intervention, is it?
No, not really.
You know, my editor was worried that I'm in danger.
I have the same concern.
I think he... I think he means danger from you.
Am I in danger?
What have we been talking about for the past three days, Paul?
You.Stop.
You.Please.
You're the one... Stop. Please, stop.
Pardon me? Please stop!
- You're upset. - Yes! It's been three days. Of course I'm upset.
What did you think my reaction would be?
- But you knew that, didn't you? Didn't you? - Yes.
- So you admit it. - I'm amazed you lasted this long.
[sighs]Paul.
You thought you had an interview with the Almighty.
No one in their right mind would believe that.
But here you are, day three, back for more?
And please, don't hand me, "I thought it would be a good story," please.
Yeah, well, I did.Paul.
You are clearly in the midst of a personal crisis.
So, I come along, I offer you an interview with God,
and that's all it takes for you to bite?
Really? Paul, what does that tell you about yourself?
That's not fair. Fair?
I've been doing you a favor these past few days, Paul.
I've given you something to think about other than your own life.
So what, this is some big, elaborate con?
Oh, would that really surprise you?
I can't believe this. You told me you were God.
That's right.
And if you didn't want it to be true, you and I would not be here right now.
[text message chimes]
You forgot to turn off your phone.Yeah.
And now you're leaving.Yes.
[phone chimes]
Oh, excuse me.Hey.
Hi.Hi. Yes. What do you need?
- Uh, I was in this room, 22. - Uh, sorry. In that room?
Yeah, do you know whose office this is?
I thought that was storage. No?
Uh...
[sighs] What do you know?
Uh, who are you looking for?
Maybe they have the keys.
Uh, never mind. Thank you.
Who are you? Have a seat, Paul. Let's talk about it.
- No. Tell me who you are. - I really think you should...
- [shouts] Who are you? - You know who I am.
- The prince of lies? - Think back over the past three days, Paul.
- Have I told you one lie? - Yes.
No. I don't know. Well, which is it?
I don't know! Everything you said could have been a lie.
But every word was true, and you know it.
You told me you were God.Yes.
- TheGod. - That's right.
- Bad news. According to my friend, you're dead. - [chuckles]
I understand, but sometimes that's just how it looks.
I promise you, God lives.
I can't believe I agreed to this. Why did you even contact me?
You contacted me.
What are you talking about? You did.
What? You contacted me. Three days, three interviews, three locations.
- And how did I do that? - What? You contacted me!
And how did I contact you?
Did I call you or send you a letter? Was it an e-mail? Snapchat?
How?
You-You... You s...
I don't know.
Paul, think about it.
[sighs] No, this can't be happening.
But it is.
So please, why don't you sit down, and we can talk about it.
- I'm just here to help you. - Help?
Yes. That's a laugh. How have you helped?
By stopping you from making a very bad decision, by keeping you safe.
Safe? Yes.
You told me I was gonna die.Yes.
- You were gonna tell me when. - Yes, but you already knew.
What are you talking about? How could I know? How could I possibly know?
You knew exactly when.[shouting] How could I know?
Because it was going to happen by your own hand, Paul.
[chuckles] No.
[kicks chair]No, you don't know that.
There aren't always signs when someone is in trouble.
But you can't hide from me.
Why are you doing this to me?
You've just lost your way.
No, you let this happen to me. How so?
I prayed. I prayed.
I know. I begged you for help.
And you think bad things happen to you because I don't care?
You didn't listen. Bad things happen all the time.
Every day. Every minute of every day.
You know that. You said it yourself.
And it's very sad.
But the truth is, most people only seem to notice bad things
when they happen to them.
And maybe that's the saddest part of all.
You really need to sit.
Why don't you help us?
I hear you. I hear it all.
Why is there war, starvation, poverty,
disease, fire, flood,
a child goes missing, a man loses hope?
Do something! Yes, do something.
You have more power than you know, Paul.
Food can be grown. Diseases can be cured. Wars ended.
A troubled veteran can be helped
and a marriage saved.
So, when you ask me why all this is happening,
start by looking to each other.
And that's where I'll be. No, I need a miracle.
Well, miracles happen every day. And sometimes...
Please.
Sometimes the miracle is you.
Wh-What's happening?
[woman's voice] You never know.
No.
[child giggling]
No.
[whispers] My salvation. Give it time.
I told you,
sometimes bad things do happen to some very good people.
[voices whispering]
[text message chimes][gasps]
[text message chimes]
[typing on phone]
[chuckles] Guess I'm walking.
[Paul] Hey, Matt. What happened today?
Great.
Wow, great!
No, no. It's fine. Just a phone number.
[laughs] Okay.
Okay.
It was a miracle. It was a miracle.
Who am I to say it wasn't, right?
No, you were due.
Sarah?
Yeah, okay, I'll tell her.
Yeah, I will tell her. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad. I'm very happy for you.
Of course.
All right, brother. Bye.
See you soon. Bye.
[sighs]
[chuckles]
Hi.
It's good to see you.
Where's your bike?
No idea.
What happened?
It's just, uh, gone.
- You love that bike. - It's just a bike.
What happened to your hand?
Oh, uh... I broke one of the jadeite cups.
Are you okay? Yeah, it'll heal.
Sorry about the cup.
It was just a cup.
Are you okay?
Yeah.
Listen, I...
I just came to apologize.
I'm sorry.
[sighs]
I'm so ashamed.
I loved you.
I still... love you.
I forgive you.
I should get going.
Bye.Stop.
May I ask you something?
[sighs]
Do you think that you coming back here today
is a...
was some sort of sign?
Sarah! You're back. Told ya.
Echinacea. Stuff's great.
Echinacea? Yep. It's the miracle cure.
Miracles. Hey, they happen every day.
Can we talk?
Inside?
Uh... yeah.
I'd like that.
Sarah.
I love you too.
[Paul narrating] Having faith isn't worth much if you don't really believe.
I kept praying, sure,
but I stopped looking or even listening.
[God] What could you possibly do that would be beyond my powers to forgive?
[Paul narrating] So, yeah, I see it now.
Definitely a sign.
[woman] ♪ It's a new day ♪
♪ Could that mean There's new life? ♪
♪ I'll dare to be hopeful ♪
♪ If the sun reclaims the sky ♪
♪ I'll put on glasses ♪
♪ So everything's A shade of green ♪
♪ Then growth can seem ♪
♪ A real possibility ♪
♪ Oh, in the stillness ♪
♪ I'll know ♪
♪ Oh, all the secrets ♪
♪ I'll know ♪
♪ Could I find a river ♪
♪ Or even just A small stream ♪
♪ That could flood my soul With life ♪
♪ When I'm too tired To dream? ♪
♪ Oh, at the source ♪
♪ I will know ♪
♪ Oh, all the secrets ♪
♪ I'll know ♪
♪ If I think it ♪
♪ Well, then it will be true ♪
♪ A thousand reasons To be thankful ♪
♪ From the closing Point of view ♪
♪ And hope for tomorrow ♪
♪ Is reason 1,001 ♪
♪ Reason 1,001 ♪
[song ends]